The Podolskiy Method: Parenting an athlete
There is no roadmap for parenting. No "one size fits all". Together we will learn what works and what does not work. Join and listen to doctors, coaches, athletes, parents, and many other guests of all walks of life. Lets take "parenting an athlete" to the next level and give them the right tools for the job.
The Podolskiy Method: Parenting an athlete
Ice Wisdom: Chuck Gridley on Inclusivity, Coaching, and Shaping Youth Hockey
As the frost of the Erie Canal thaws into the warmth of inclusivity, Chuck Gridley, a true stalwart of New York's hockey community, shares his journey from ice-cold beginnings to nurturing the next generation of athletes. You'll find yourself captivated by tales of his transition from player to coach, and his profound advocacy for disabled athletes. Stand by, as Chuck weaves us through the victories and challenges of fostering a sports environment where every player, regardless of ability, has the chance to glide across the ice with pride.
Navigating the intricate web of youth hockey coaching, particularly the delicate dance with parent-coaches, reveals a landscape rich in passion but fraught with pitfalls. We uncover the delicate art of balancing personal aspirations with team success, as Chuck and I reflect on the ever-evolving role of parents in youth sports. From the sidelines of personal anecdotes to the frontlines of coaching education, you'll gain insights into how the fabric of team culture is stitched together, thread by passionate thread.
Finally, we lace up our skates to carve into the ice the ideals of competition, personal growth, and the essential elements of effective coaching. This conversation is a masterclass in the subtleties of communication and instruction, tailored to the individual athlete—because at the heart of every drill, every game, every triumph, is a child learning not just how to handle a puck, but how to navigate life's rink with resilience and grace. Chuck Gridley's wisdom is a beacon for parents and coaches alike, illuminating the path to a more positive, encouraging, and successful youth sports experience for all.
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Silence. Thank you, good evening everybody and welcome back to the Podolsky Method podcast. I'm your creator and host, coach Oya, I'm a Level 4 USA Hockey certified coach, owner and operator of a skate sharpening shop called Sharp Skate New York and a certified public accountant by trade. I'd like to introduce our sponsors as usual. Print Only With Us is a full printing shop here in New York City. If you need anything from t-shirts to jerseys, they are great and they can definitely help you out.
Speaker 1:Workgate Hockey the protection for the bottom of your face so you keep your teeth for those hockey players out there. Get 10% off with code 10POD-O-D-O-L-S-K-I-Y. Howie's Hockey 10% off for everybody listening as well, with code P-O-D-O-L-S-K-I-Y-1-0. And, of course, check out the Junior Rangers programming. As you guys might know, we run programs through fall, spring and winter sessions 10 sessions plus full gear for under $300. It's a wonderful way to get into the game. And today I have a very special guest, chuck Gridley, with me. Chuck is a USA Hockey coaching chief for New York and National Disabled Section. He's the USA Hockey Coaching Chief for New York and National Disabled Section. He's a CEP instructor and Chuck and I met at the Level 5 Coaching Seminar last May. So, chuck, thank you so much for jumping on the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for the invite, Ilya.
Speaker 1:Happy to be here, awesome. So why don't we start? If you could tell a little bit about yourself? Talk a little bit about what was it like growing up for you. You know what sports you played growing up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. So I grew up in central New York, where I still live. I live in a little town called Skinny Atlas and I grew up not too far from here and you know, winters in upstate New York are usually not so much this year, but usually are pretty cold, and so I ended up starting to play organized hockey, I think when I was 10. But I played hockey before that a lot, you know. Outdoors, on the local ponds, we used to play in the Erie Canal, which was awesome. Outdoors on the local ponds, we used to play in the Erie Canal, which was awesome. You used to be able to get on a nice cold day when there was no if there was two or three cold days and no wind the canal would freeze over. It didn't take too much for that to happen because it was still water and it's not that deep and you could skate for miles with a puck, which was, you know, one of my fond memories of starting out, you know, working on the skills of hockey and playing with my buddies at the Erie Canal. So I started playing organized hockey when I was 10, which was kind of late for a lot of the kids that I was playing with and against but fell in love with it and ended up playing youth hockey in a couple of different organizations at the same time, unlike what happens these days where people kind of bounce around. But I played with two different organizations in central New York and played four years of high school hockey and one year of club college club hockey before I ended up leaving upstate New York and for the warm sunshine of South Carolina and I finished up my bachelor's degree down there and I actually played lacrosse down at the University of South Carolina and then didn't play for a couple of years, didn't play hockey for a couple of years and when we moved back up we were in Philly. My wife and I landed in Philly for 10 years and we eventually moved back to central New York in 1991.
Speaker 2:And I got back into playing and I immediately got into coaching. My son was five at the time and actually I think he was three when we moved up here. But he started playing when he was five and I started coaching him in baseball, soccer, lacrosse, hockey and just really fell in love with coaching hockey and have been doing it ever since with coaching hockey, and have been doing it ever since and you know, at one point that's probably, I don't know, 27 or eight years ago now, I can't remember I got involved with USA Hockey as an instructor for the initiation program and kind of matriculated up. I ended up uh getting involved with the ACE program, which is kind of a pseudo version of the hockey director uh program in in some of the other districts. And then, uh, uh, at some point I was uh asked to take over the coaching education program in New York and I've been doing that for, I'm guessing, but somewhere around 15 years or so. So it's been a while and a lot of other involvement.
Speaker 2:I've been on the board for Skiddy Atlas Youth Hockey. I was on the board for somewhere around 10 years, pretty much held every position on the board except for president, which I never wanted to be. It's one of, I think, one of the most thankless jobs. It's got to be done and thank God there are people that will do it. But I was coaching coordinator and involved with tournaments and et cetera, et cetera. And now I'm involved with disabled hockey.
Speaker 2:I was asked to be the coach in chief not only for the District of New York but also for all of disabled hockey throughout the country. I coach a sled hockey team currently and I have for 10 or 12 years now and so because of my involvement with that, I was asked to get involved as kind of a liaison between the coaching section and the disabled section, and then that just kind of has grown and currently, actually just as of this year, david Hoff, who's actually a good friend of mine and the coach of the national, our US national sled hockey team, paralympic team, asked me, as well as Dan Brennan, to help put together clinics, skill clinics, for folks that are playing sled hockey throughout the country. So we're in the in the midst of organizing sled hockey camps for throughout the summer throughout the country. So that's another thing that's not my plate at this point.
Speaker 1:Well, wonderful, once you have those, those, please do share them with uh, with me. I'll be happy to share them with the group I did oh, that's awesome yeah yeah, absolutely, I did um I do donate to um the warriors uh sweat hockey teams. I actually had my old company donate uh quite substantially to um the warriors hockey in washington dc that's great yeah yeah, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1:A lot of those folks like coming back from military and god forbid, I mean, unfortunately they come back injured or otherwise and it's great that they can get back into the game and and the game gives back to them you, that they can use that to get their footing back, you know.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent, yeah, and you'd be surprised. A number of those players that have made it all the way to the, the Paralympic team, the national level, didn't necessarily play hockey as a as a kid, you know. Before they sustained their injury but got into hockey afterwards they sustained their injury but got into hockey afterwards. The guys and women we have a national women's national team as well. I'm not as familiar with them as I am with the men's team and I can tell you that those guys that play on our national team are just phenomenal athletes. They may be missing a leg or they may have a disability that they've had from birth, but they are superior athletes and the best in the world. I mean no one.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, we've gotten to the point where no one really. There's not a lot of competition, even with Canada, and so that's gotten to the point of almost being a problem because they can't get the kind of competition. They need to get better. I shouldn't say they can't. It's difficult and it would be better. I would rather see them, quite honestly, lose a few games outside of the Olympics, the Paralympics. I'd rather see them lose a few games and be challenged a little bit. But it's a great bunch of guys. The coaching staff is just phenomenal and had the opportunity to work with them and it's really great to see, and again, I think, what people don't realize. I think a lot of people say, oh, you know those poor disabled athletes? They're not that at all. They are world-class athletes and they treat the game and their training as such. They work as hard as anybody else at the top end of the top level of the game that they play and, yeah, really proud to know them and to be around them when I am. It's an awesome experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's amazing. I'm really glad you shared that because I know that I do this 24-hour hockey tournament for charity up in Dix Hills for the last couple of years. I've been fortunate enough to be part of that through the Rangers programming and you know, when you see Colton Moore or Stephen Matteau trying to do sweat hockey against some of these kids and they're just you, you know go around them in circles.
Speaker 2:it's not as easy as it works I, I don't want to get sidetracked, but an interesting story. Um, at least I find it interesting and I've told the story to my players, my sled hockey players, because we always start practice, uh, with a little chaos, stick handling. And every time we do it, um, before we do it, I always bring them in at the beginning of practice and I'll say you know, we're going to, we're going to do some chaos, stick handling, as we always do. And the reason we do this is because if you can't skate and you can't stick handle, you can't play hockey. And you know, I think a lot of times their eyes roll in the back of their head. You know they're laughing at, you know, coach, telling them the same thing over and over again.
Speaker 2:But we, not too long ago, maybe a month, month and a half ago, we played a pretty good ACHA club team. Syracuse University has a pretty decent club team and they've got some good players that you know probably could play D3 at some colleges and I think they've done very well this year. So, anyways, we, you know we had got extra sleds and went and played them, which you know we don't do that a ton. But we happened to say yes to this invite and we beat them like 16 to nothing. And you know, at the beginning, in the in the locker and the players are like coach, you're not going to call us off at this. What are you? You're going to let us? I said, listen, you guys can. You can score as many goals as you want this game I don't care, and they were great sports about it. But it wasn't like they weren't trying. It was not like they were trying. And the next practice I brought the team in and I said you know, I want to use that game last Saturday as an example of what I tell you all the time If you can't skate and you can't stick handle, you can't play the game.
Speaker 2:I said no offense to any of you, but that team that we played the other day, they know the game way better. You know, none of my players ever played hockey as a kid, none of them. They all started playing as adults. Most of them are adults. We only have two kids, youth players, on the team and I said you know, they know the game better than you do. They've played it at a very high level.
Speaker 2:They've been coached very well, every single one of them, and you destroyed them. You destroyed them because you can skate and stick handle in sled hockey better than they can. It's it's completely different skillset and and so you know our guys could skate and and and stick handle. They couldn't, even though they knew the game, they knew where to be, they knew how to make plays. You know, they've practiced all of that. We destroyed them and it was a really good example, just quite by accident, of the fact that and it's the same thing you know that You're a hockey coach If you can't skate, you can't stick at all, you can't play the game. So let's make sure that those basic skills are in place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems so simple, simple right, like everybody should think of it. But not everybody does, no? So especially.
Speaker 2:You know, if you didn't grow up playing new sports, you didn't grow up playing hockey. It's not intuitive. I guess that, hey, you need. This is where this is the base. This is the base that we got to build on right. We're trying to learn the game. There's a lot of individual and team tactics. We work on all that stuff, but if you can't do this, you can't play, and this was just a really obvious example and I think it made a huge impact too. I think their eyes opened and they realized, yeah, we do have to work on this and get better at it.
Speaker 1:Eyes opened and they, you know, they realize that, yeah, we do have to work on this and get better at it. Yeah, and you know, talking a little bit about coaching education and coaching coaches, I know you mentioned, you know you were a parent coach when you started and you know one question I have for you is do you feel that? I was looking at some of the statistics before this episode and I know that this year we had uh over, I believe it's 61,700 coaches or so registered with usa hockey.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it was in that ballpark.
Speaker 1:I will trust your uh your research there yeah, and I think I think it's great that you see a progressive increase year over year, but do you think that most of those coaches are parents who are starting to get involved with their kid and then they leave the game with their kid? Do we have any idea from a youth hockey perspective on what the retention looks like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think, anecdotally, I would say you're right that the majority of coaches that are working in youth hockey at this point are parents, not all. And you know, especially down by you, there's probably the greatest percentage of paid coaches that may not have a child playing but for the most part, like in New York State, which is the district that I know the most, most of our clubs are either tier two or tier three. Right, they're not paying coaches. That's not happening. Most of them don't have hockey directors. You know, most of them are, at least they started out community based organizations. That's changed.
Speaker 2:I think that that format format has kind of changed a little bit, but there's still community, but there's still small communities and there are clubs that don't have, you know, three or 400 players that are registered with it. Most of them in New York are probably more and, again, this is anecdotal, but I would say that they're probably more in the 150 to 250 range in terms of numbers. And so, yeah, you're definitely dealing with mostly parent coaches, right, Some of whom have hockey background and some of them don't, and you know, in terms of how they end up or how they absorb coaching education and how they end up doing as a coach. I think some of the parent coaches end up, you know, at least for tier two, tier three, recreational hockey, hockey I think they end up doing just as good sometimes as the parent coaches with a hockey background.
Speaker 1:But you know, it's kind of a mix, but you know, I do think the majority of folks that are coaching are parents and have kids playing. Yeah, and I think you know, right before the show, you and I kind of touched a little bit on parent education, which kind of, I guess, goes hand in hand when we talk about parent coaches or parents in general, and you know, trying to. You know, the part that I found most difficult in my coaching experience is marrying up the view from a coach's perspective to a parent. Right, a parent is looking at their child as an individual and as coaches we're looking at kids as a team. Right, we're looking at them collectively and we're putting them into a slightly different world than, let's say, an individual would. So we still recognize the individual skill and individual development, but I feel like we're looking at them as a unit and you know who works better where and things like that.
Speaker 1:When, um, you know a parent as a parent, looking at just my child, I'd be like, well, my kid should be on, you know, first line center and you know scoring 77 goals a game, you know, and so there's that little mix of. I feel like there's that little disconnect that happens in purview, and so we were talking a little bit about the difficulty in educating parents and do you see something that I know? Us Hockey has developed a lot of information, a lot of instructions for the coaches at this point, but do you see them working on more of that parent development information?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and actually I didn't really mention this when we were talking previously, but that is in the works. Some sort of parent education program through USA Hockey is in the works. I hope I'm not talking out of school. I don't know really anything about it. I'm not involved in putting it together, I just know from being involved with coaching education. We meet all the time and that has come up, and in fact I heard I was talking to somebody else about something else and that subject came up in the last couple of weeks. So it's something that is.
Speaker 2:I think everybody knows that it's something that we at least need to put out there. I don't know, I don't know. I guess sometimes I'm a glass half empty guy. I just I'm not 100% sure whether or not it, how effective it will be in that Um, you know, I think in order for it to work, parents have got to, you know, number one, sit through it and, number two, absorb some of the information and take it to heart, right, um, and I think that's. I think there there's where the there is where the, the disconnect lies.
Speaker 2:I, you know, I think I was listening to what you were saying and I think, as a coach, you know, especially you coach 12, you know you're trying to create a positive team culture and one of the toughest things to overcome, I think, is, you know, the influence of a parent in pushing that individualism, you know, on their kid when they're away from the rink. You know, by that I mean really focusing on them and their development, which we're as coaches. We're all doing that Right, but we're also, as you said, we're also trying to bring the team together and create that positive team culture. And I think one of the quickest ways to to kill that is, you know, is is parents getting involved in in having kind of a negative influence on their own kids. Why aren't you on the first line and why has Bobby got more goals than you do, or whatever.
Speaker 2:I mean they may not be the best examples, but I do think that growing up as a kid and I don't know, maybe we don't always remember as a child, maybe we don't bring an adult viewpoint as a kid, so maybe my memories are not as as clear as I think they are, but I just I don't remember, you know, certainly not my parents. My parents would drop me off and they, my dad was not an athlete as a kid. He loved sports but he ended up working at a very early age, going to work. He came from a big family and he'd never went to college and so he was really focused on work, even as a youngster. He loved, I think, he played. You know, he played sandlot, baseball and basketball, whatever, but organized sports was not his thing. But they were very hands off and so and it was that was kind of the experience, my experience, seeing my friends, parents as well I just think it was a different time. I'm 64. So I grew up in the late 60s, early 70s, as a youth player and it was just different and we probably spent more time playing football on the field, hockey on a pond, than we ever played organized sports. It just wasn't as big as it is now. Now it's so ubiquitous.
Speaker 2:Every kid not every kid, but a lot of kids are involved in sports. Very few kids do it just for the fun of it. These days it's all everyone's making it to the NHL or major league baseball or, you know, the NFL or whatever. Um, which is, you know, is a complete pipe dream. It's awesome when it happens and I'm sure you've coached kids that have gotten to the next level, but, um, it's, they're few and far between Right and so, uh, you know, it's just that you know the influence of parents on their own kids and then sometimes they bring it you know, I'm sure you've heard it Sometimes they bring it right to you as a coach and try to influence things directly and it it can be a real negative influence on a team for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that you brought up the. You know the generational, almost like generational difference of how we grew up. You know, playing sports. My parents were also not very much involved and I was a martial artist. You know, I have a black belt in Taekwondo. I used to compete, I used to wrestle.
Speaker 1:In high school and college I played hockey as like a almost like a secondary sport until I was older and then it became my primary sport and then, you know, to me that got into coaching. But, um, but it was just so different, like you said, like the parents, um, weren't as involved in watching their kids or like they would just, you know, bring them to the rink and you know, there you are. You know, that's one of the interesting things that came out of COVID, which was very unfortunate. You know, the world kind of changed, but during COVID, when the rink started opening up, the parents weren't allowed inside. A lot of coaches were saying this is the most focused I've seen this group every play or practice 100%. Yeah, it was very interesting. It's like oh, nobody's distracting you. So you know, you're by yourself, there's nobody to look at, the rink is empty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest with you, I coached at every level of youth hockey, up, you know, through 18U. And then I went back a number of years ago over 20 years ago, 22, 23 years ago and started coaching our initiation or learn to skate and learn to play. Groups Started out just learn to play and then I added a learn to skate program in addition to that, because we had parents bringing three-year-olds to the rink, and you know you had, so you had three to about six, and so we just divided them up so that we had a better grouping of, you know, like skilled players, kids that were at the same level of development. You know most of them were out of diapers at least. So we and I coached that group for I ran that, those two groups, for 22 years in skinny Atlas and so coached every kid that came through skinny Atlas youth hockey, you know, really up and they just won the high school team just won the state championship a couple weeks ago and I coached 90 of those kids when they were like five and six. So I got I still got good pictures to, uh, to embarrass them by, but, um, part of the and I and I, as I mentioned, I coach a sled hockey team which is just a recreational sled hockey team.
Speaker 2:One of the reasons that I kind of settled there was because number one, both of them are very low impact in terms of travel. All of it was even the sled hockey team for many years was right at our rink in Skaneos, which was literally three blocks from my house. So it was very easy and we played. You know, the sled hockey team plays in some tournaments, but not a ton of games. If we play 20 games in a season it's a lot. It's between 15 and 20 games. So it wasn't a lot of travel. It didn't take me away from home with what I do with USA Hockey and my other commitments, away from home with what I do with USA hockey and my other commitments.
Speaker 2:I didn't have a ton of time to give but I wanted to keep coaching. So with both that sled hockey team and the initiation group the learn to skate, learn to play the parent involvement is minimal. It's almost nil. Right With the sled hockey team there's a couple of kids and their parents drop them off, et cetera, it's, but they're, they are extremely thrilled that their kids are playing a sport that they're, you know, there's it's all positive. There's there's no negative. And with the, the learn to skate and learn to play. They're brand new to this and they don't know what they don't know and for the most part, it's it's it's all fun, right, and for the most part, it's it's it's all fun, right.
Speaker 2:So you know, selfishly, I just didn't want to deal with that part. I really honestly, I couldn't deal with that part if I wanted to stay involved with. You know, I'm also on the board of new york state amateur hockey and and what I do with usa hockey and a lot of travel involved in all of that. I just didn't have the time. So, but my point is it did get rid of that, that parent piece, and it's just, it's unbelievably freeing. So, yeah, I, I I do sympathize for every coach at every, every clinic that we do, I do in level fours, I do.
Speaker 2:I ran a piece called the coach's impact and in part of that and part of that block, we talk about challenges to developing positive team culture and the first thing that comes up every there's 60 coaches in the class, they're from all over the country and every single time, the first thing that comes up as a detriment to or a barrier to to to developing a positive team culture, is parents. So it's it's ubiquitous, it's not something that you see or I see. It's something that almost every coach sees. So it is a problem and it's it's um, it's something that you know. Uh, we, we need to deal with um, for for for sure yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that there's a saying that goes something to the extent that you know you put 10 people in the room, you get 10 different opinions. That's kind of the case when you're dealing with a team. You have, you know, 10 families and everybody sees things different ways. And I think you know I think the important thing that a lot of folks miss is that it's okay to disagree, it is okay not to agree with the coach's approach, it is okay to think that, hey, I would have done it this way.
Speaker 1:But it also you need to be able to accept that this person's leading this team, this person is in that position of authority and coaching the team, and that person cannot second guess his decisions. And the minute that the coach starts second guessing himself or herself on that bench, that's the minute when you know everybody starts struggling right, because they have no identity. They don't know which way they want the kids to go, what they want them to do. Do you want to please everybody? You can't. And then you start running into a lot of that trouble where you know you're no longer helping the kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean I think one of the things that I try to impart on coaches that you know that come through the clinic, you know each block has a different focus but that, like I said, with the clinics that we do in New York 45 ish, 45 to 50 clinics over the course of the year we probably do 10 or 12 level fours and in that level four there's a piece that I didn't put it together, it was put together by our curriculum committee. It's called the coach's impact and it and it talks about you know putting, you know developing a positive team culture, et cetera, and you know it's I just, every time we go through that, you know I do mention to to the coaches that you know it's bringing the parents in to the process. Not necessarily. I think this is just my own opinion and actually none of what I say is I'm not speaking for USA Hockey. I'm speaking for USA Hockey, but I think that the culture needs to come from the staff and the players. I think that's something. If you want buy-in, the players better be involved in that. The players. I think that's something. If you want buy-in, the players better be involved in that, right.
Speaker 2:So I think that's something that we as a team, as staff and players, put together, but I think the parents have to know what it is, and and and I, my feeling is that it's presented to them not as what do you guys think it's?
Speaker 2:This is our, our culture, this is what your, your kids, your, your own children on this team have helped put together and and buy into.
Speaker 2:And we as the staff and this is what we're doing this year this is what we believe in, this is what we want to accomplish and we need you to to buy into it as well.
Speaker 2:It's not going to work unless you're involved in it, right, and I think that's one way to try to get in. I think there's a lot of other ways to bring them in to the team, to make them part of it, to make them part of the process, to give them a job. Maybe they're counting shots, maybe they're involved in getting food for a trip that you're doing, maybe they're involved in planning for hotels or whatever it is, but I think co-opting them, bringing them into the process, I think is a good way of getting them on your side and getting them out of being a problem and turning their involvement more into a positive thing. It doesn't work with everybody, as you know, but I think it can work with some parents. I think that's one strategy that I try to impart to coaches to try to make that, make this better, you know, make this relationship better.
Speaker 1:No, that's great. I couldn't agree with you more. And I think that's great advice for coaches coming into the game and especially as you get into the older groups, right, like when I'm working with, as you said. I do want to learn to play groups as well and I work with six and seven yearyear-olds and babies coming in and through the Junior Rangers program we get 10 to 12 brand-new kids. Just at AV there are sports where I coach, but other rings have the same turnout.
Speaker 1:So we have seen a huge increase in the kids trying out the game and then staying in the game and playing.
Speaker 1:You know trying out the game and then staying in the game and playing, and you know it's so quickly, the reward is so quick because they progress so quickly. So you know the parent sees a kid getting on the ice, he falls seven times and before the practice is over the kid can get up and walk across the ice on their own. Second practice the kid already kind of glides and maybe even learns to stop a little bit. Third practice we're doing you know they're skating, they're gliding, they're stopping. Fourth practice we're skating backwards and the parents are like what just happened? You know it's been four or five practices and these kids are skating and you know they're excited and they feel good. And then when you get to the older kid and it's like you know you teach them, you know to open to, you know to the wall or turn away from the pressure, and it takes you three months what that one thing to stick in and it means like what's wrong? Why is this not working? You know, it's like it's so much, it's so exaggerated.
Speaker 2:The younger levels as opposed to when the older ones yeah, that's so true, I mean, I think as opposed to the older ones. Yeah, that's so true, I mean I think there's two reasons, a couple of reasons for that. One is that number one young kids are just sponges and they have such a capacity to learn, you know, not just cognitively, but physically as well, you know motor skills. And two, I mean, they're starting from absolute scratch. So I've lived exactly what you just said for for 22 years and you know, you know it's funny because you look like a genius, because these kids are progressing so fast. And you know, what I really tell the parents is yeah, this happens every year, and it's not us, it's them. They're just, they've got such a capacity to learn and and to improve.
Speaker 1:Um, it's, and it's fun to watch, it's, it's really fun to watch yeah, and I think that kind of brings me to this next point is you know, I think I heard this quote from somebody, I don't remember who, but it said when do we go from wow to why? Like, when does it change from going wow, my kid can now skate, and isn't that wonderful. Or a kid can lift the puck off the ice with a shot, isn't that amazing? To why didn't you score that goal? Why didn't you make that play? Why didn't you play better? Why didn't you skate better?
Speaker 1:When does that parent-child relationship change? And in my mind, I always think that a coach has to maintain discipline and they have to be an educator and they have to kind of stay focused and demanding and set the bar. But as a parent, should you maintain that wow factor as part of your relationship with your child? You know when? When do you have you seen that change with the age groups? Which age group do you think that happens in and how the parents really try to maintain the wow factor?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, what I've seen over the, you know, 30 years of involvement in youth hockey is that, it that that change, that conversion from wow to why it kept happening earlier and earlier. Right, and yeah, I mean I don't know that I would feel comfortable pinning it down exactly. I mean I don't know that I would feel comfortable pinning it down exactly. But you know, even, like you know, nine and 10 year olds, I think, parents are, are starting to to get, you know, more involved in the why and questioning. And you know, I think there's there's a lot of reasons for it. And I don't think you know, I don't, I don't, I'm not smart enough to know all of them, but what I, I think what I can say is that hockey is a very expensive sport and it's it's very time consuming, it's a. You know there's a, there's a there's a lot of investment on the part of the parents, both in time and money, especially down by you. I mean I don't need to tell you, I mean you know the ice time in central New York. I was up until I don't know, maybe six years ago, I was paying $90 an hour for ice. I know you guys are five, seven times that right and depending on the rank, so it's. It varies from place to place. But even here, where ice time is cheaper and up in Northern New York and other parts of the country where you know it's it's not as expensive as it is in the metropolitan area, it's still a lot of money and and so to play hockey, you know, for a child to play hockey for a whole season, and if they're, you know they're traveling, they hockey. You know for a child to play hockey for a whole season, and if they're traveling they're playing games in other parts of the country or up in Canada, you're spending a lot of money. It's costly, right? So parents, I think, feel pressure and give pressure because of that, and I also think it's cultural.
Speaker 2:I think things have just changed, I mean dramatically. Even before, you know, way before COVID, the world is a different place than it was when we grew up. You know that happens with every generation, right? It seems to be a little bit more pronounced maybe as we go into the future here. And you know, just if you look at the difference in how our kids communicate as compared to how we communicated, that's such a huge difference.
Speaker 2:That doesn't really speak to what we're talking about here in terms of parents perception, but I do.
Speaker 2:I do think it speaks to how much our culture has changed and so what I experienced as a youth player and what you experienced're a victim of, you know what the culture that that they're living in now but I do think I don't think it's healthy, I don't think it's a positive thing for the kids that are playing. It's a positive thing for the kids that are playing and I think if they could see that somehow, if they, you know, could watch a video of some of the bad behavior or some of the things that we feel, as coaches, feel are a negative influence on a team, I think it might. You know, they might think differently about it. But, yeah, I would say it's gotten worse. It's that wow to why. I love the way you put that, by the way, and I'm going to use that but I think that has gone backwards and I think it's happening at an earlier age, um than it, than it used to, for sure yeah, I mean I I'll tell you from my own experience.
Speaker 1:I've gone through that, where you know I've lost it for a little bit and the broad you know kind of brought it back um where you know you get into. And I think I got a comment from um of our listeners. My wife wanted to comment that it changes when competition becomes apparent. Well, thank you, darling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right. And so I think that, even as a coach, right, when you get into more competitive structures and they're more, I guess, more nerve-wracking, those close games, those championship games, the tournament games it's hard to keep your composure in terms of just hey, I want to enjoy the moment, I want to take it and win or lose, whether you're happy at the end or you're crying at the end, whatever the situation is, you got to be able to take that in and enjoy that. And I think that that's a difficult thing to do, especially dealing with the walls. But I also think you know, if you take it a little bit a step further and think about why do we put our kids into sports in the first place? Why do we put our kids into sports in the first place? And isn't it to teach them to deal with failure and to be able to grow from that and to you know, not get you know.
Speaker 1:And there's actually I was doing some research about things like suicide rates and things like depression in athletes versus non-athletes, and while there's no real consensus that says you know, if you're an athlete, chances of you getting depressed are much less than somebody who's not, but there are linkages and studies that are being done that say that that is the case, that athletes are more, um, I guess, resilient to their the struggles that they face in their life. You know, like, whether it's failing in school, whether it's failing losing a job, you know, when you're 30 or 40 right, and a lot of us have been, you know, gone through a layoff or two and had to pick ourselves up. You know losing a spouse or you know a relationship, you know, and being able to deal with that, and I feel like that's the whole purpose of a sport. So if that's the purpose, don't you want your child to experience it and grow from it as much as possible, as opposed to going through their career winning every single game and championship, which to me would say you probably put them on the wrong level? You should be the place where you're struggling, because otherwise is growth happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're so right. I mean, I think a big part of what we learn by competing and playing sports is how to lose, right, and that failure is part of the learning process. Right, failure is going to happen. It's inevitable. There is nobody on the planet that never lost a game, if they're an athlete, right, and so we need to learn how to lose and lose gracefully and learn from it, right, I think that's.
Speaker 2:I think you put your finger on something that's that's really important in. In that is, you know, as a coach, are we about? Are we just about winning and losing? We're certainly about wanting to win, right, I mean, if you, if somebody says that they don't care, if if we win or lose, they're lying, right, everybody wants, I want to win at everything I do. If I'm playing checkers with my five-year-old grandson, you know, to a certain extent, I want to win. There may be some times when I will let him win just because you know he's cute and I love him, but I think you know, wanting to, the desire to, to win and be successful, is certainly just as part of being human. But as a coach, if, if, that is, if, that's the only barometer that I'm using to gauge my success as a coach that you're bound to be a failure, you know, for I shouldn't say that so, uh, clearly, but I do think that that, um, for me, the goal is development, right, and and, and we can develop and we can learn and we can get better at the game, even though we lost.
Speaker 2:And the other thing is that winning is not always a controllable right, it's an outcome, right. You know that as a coach, right, and I'm sure you've coached games where you've come back in the locker room and you just lost four to two and you say great game guys. You guys played really well. We did the little things that I wanted you to do. We accomplished a lot of the goals that we wanted to accomplish in that game and their goal took goal tender stood on his head or they outplayed us. They played a great game, right, I may not say that to my team, but I, you know, in my head, I know that that team outplayed us, right. Winning is an outcome and sometimes you know you it's, it's it's somewhat out of your control. It's not out of your control to play your best. It is sometimes out of your control to whether you win or lose. So, and I think that that's part of the problem.
Speaker 2:I think that, culturally, we are so focused as Americans, we are so focused on winning it's it's like it's an obsession on winning it's. It's like, uh, it it, it's an obsession, and, um, I love that to a certain extent and I hate it to another extent, because you know, it's a double-edged sword it it it drives us to be, to be, you know, the best that we can be, and it's partly why this country is such a great country and so successful. But, uh, same token, if it's the only thing that's important, if it's the only barometer by which we judge ourselves, you know we're bound to be dissatisfied. Right? I mean, there's only in the NHL, there's only one team that wins, you know, the Stanley Cup at the end of the year. So does that mean the other? You know 30, what is it? 35 teams now, or whatever stank? No, it doesn't.
Speaker 2:But you know, it's just a cultural thing and I've had the opportunity, through my involvement with USA Hockey, to meet hockey people from all over the world and it's amazing.
Speaker 2:You know, there are a number of countries, I think, that kind of think like us, but there are a number of countries that don't, and the way they approach, at least at the youth level, the way they approach the game is so different, and you can see it in, you know, small countries like Sweden and Finland that produce an incredibly high number of players that make it to the next level, and I think a lot of that has to do with how they approach the game.
Speaker 2:And, again, I think a lot of it is cultural. I think a lot of it is out of our hands as hockey people, but it's something that we have to understand and it's something that we have to deal with if we want to be successful, and I think we've done as a nation, we've done a pretty good job of that at the highest level. But there's a lot of kids that are playing that are never going to get to the highest level and and do we want their experience to be positive or or not? And I think you know what you're, what you're driving at, you know what you're about here is, I think is is a really important issue for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, you know and speaking about you know, just growing the game and the number of you know, did you mention the other countries?
Speaker 1:um, I was looking again at some of the stats and I realized that, you know, one of the things that we were talking about, level five um coaching seminar, which, by the way, was wonderful and, yeah, I think I might do a couple more just for fun, because they were it was great. It's a, you know, great panel from the boston bruins alumni and it was incredible. But the one thing that I think the one theme that kept regurgitating is that, you know, making it fun and enjoying the actual game, and I saw that the numbers in player participation increased by over 100,000 since 2021 to 2023 season. That's an unbelievable amount of players. So if you talk about statistically and we say one out of 10,000 players or whatever makes it to the NHL, that's an extra 10 players.
Speaker 2:Let's hope.
Speaker 1:Right, but just statistically speaking, just thinking about it, right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:The more kids that we have playing, the more chances we have of kids making the top teams. And it seems like those Scandinavian and Eastern European countries have such an abundance of athletes, especially in the winter sports. You know, I guess one is because it's just cold. You know, that's what they do. One of the gentlemen I coached with for many years, um, coach vlad for those in new york and know him uh, he's from very cold parts of russia and he would say that his whole town of 10 000 people would either play hockey or watch hockey. So that was the thing every weekend. He's like either played or you watched it, that was the only thing you got.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hockey is huge in Russia. It's a very popular sport in Russia, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so just looking at those numbers and thinking about the increase in participation, do you think we have enough coaches at the moment who are stepping up to coach, especially, as you said, experienced, maybe somewhat experienced players, or even high-level players from AHL NHL who come back to coach, or is that something that we are trying to look to develop?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, we certainly want to develop, um, as many coaches, you know, and get them to high level of coaching as possible. Um, I think we have, you know, because of the fact, as we discussed earlier, that a lot of the, the, the coaches that are out there are parents. Um, I think we have enough people that are acting as coaches, right, that are coaching recreational teams, tier two, tier three, teams that are in the process of becoming the best coach that they can be. They're not there yet, right? And I think we have a lot of very good coaches that are coaching at the higher levels, you know, tier one coaches, junior coaches that that have been you, have good experience, a lot of experience, and know the game and, and, more importantly, I guess, know how to coach the game. But we do have to continue to help develop those coaches, those parental coaches or coaches that don't have a lot of experience, to get them to be the best coach that they can be, right, and that's what the coaching education program is all about, and it's it's to be honest with the curriculum that we currently are using level one through four, which are, all you know, basically six hour courses, and 98% of them are done through Zoom online. At this point, the curriculum for that is really good as good as it's ever been, you know finally professionally put together, although, I think you know, we, the CICs from the districts, we used to put a committee together of those CICs along with some of the paid staff to put the curriculum together and it was always good, I think going back way back back to 70s and 80s with Luvero and Val Belmonte. They always did a great job and if you look at those old books it's remarkable. The topics that they covered are really still some of the topics that we're dealing with today in our levels one through four. I think we are taking a deeper dive and it's more the current curriculum is more about how to coach than it is what to coach. It's more the current curriculum is more about how to coach than it is what to coach.
Speaker 2:There is plenty of information out there on, you know, the USA Hockey website and many other websites and through folks like yourself and other hockey related information that's out there. There's a lot of information on what drills look like and you know, practice, how to plan a practice, et cetera. But actually just becoming a better coach, right, how do we coach. What are the, what are the skills that we need as a coach? You know we bring that up in coaching clinics. You know the stairs are blank and you know it's things like how to, how to explain a drill, how to demonstrate a drill, things that you know I certainly always thought that I could do. I never really thought a lot about it, to be honest with you, and when we started focusing on this, I realized you know what? I'm not that good at it and you know, the quicker you can explain a drill and have it understood, the quicker that you can demonstrate a drill. We're not doing it just for the sake of explaining or hearing ourselves talk. We're doing it so that we can get the team into an exercise, an activity on the ice that we think is going to help them become better.
Speaker 2:Things like how to observe these are all things that we sort of think are instinctive, right, intuitive. But how to analyze how to? You know we observe our players and then we have to take that information and analyze it to coach. Coaching a player it's. You know. They come off the ice and you're leaning over their shoulder and saying, hey, next time. You're in your defensive zone and you know you need to look over your shoulder, be aware, scan, find that you know your, your cover or whatever. Um, that's what we think of as coaching, but there's so much that goes into it before that you get to that point, how do we, how do we make observations of our players and how do we analyze that information? And then how is it to best help a player? By not just you know.
Speaker 2:I think most of us think that if we just tell them listen, you know whatever it happens to be, you know in your, in your defensive zone, you know you need to be, you need to look behind, you need to have your hand on a swivel. You know you had a guy sitting on the far post, the back door, you didn't see it. He scored a goal, whatever. That is not necessarily going to change that behavior, but if we ask the right questions and involve the player in that process, right by asking questions, let them think about it, let them come to that conclusion. Things like that, little things, little tools, little devices, strategies to be you're.
Speaker 2:It's funny when we, when we have a clinic, we always I always ask how many teachers do we have in the group? And you know you'll get three or four people out of 60 that'll raise their hand and we'll always say I didn't think of this, somebody else did. But I think it's so true. You're all teachers. Everyone should have raised your hands. Every single one of you is a teacher. You're a coach, coaching is teaching, and so you're part of the learning process and you need you need to understand what that process is and the fact that it's messy and that there's failure involved and, as a coach, we have to be, we have to be OK with that, right, we have to be OK with with our players getting it wrong, making mistakes, especially in practice, but it's going to happen in games as well, you know. So, yeah, it's kind of a long-winded answer to your question.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, that was perfect. Yeah, I love how you made that connection between coaching and teachers, because my wife is a teacher. We actually talk all the time about, you know, kids, and you know there's instances where she helps me work through something with a child that you know I'm trying to find a connection with and I'm struggling for one reason or another. Right, I work sometimes with kids with ADHD and other. You know, some learning disabilities and just understanding how they work through it in a classroom really helps you work through it on the ice, because they just take a little bit of different approach, maybe getting the attention a little bit differently. You know, just, you know some kids are kind of all over the place you're gonna reel them in every five seconds, and others you don't, and just you know, just just being able to work through those things and and it really does come from, you know, learning to teach and not just teaching the game. So I really love that you made that connection, because I think it's a very important one, especially for all the new coaches coming into the game.
Speaker 1:I do want to talk a little bit about something we touched on earlier, which was what I call kitchen talk, and when we hear parents or coaches or administrators talking in the background about a child or about you know, so, a lot of times it's parents talking about the coach in front of their child and then that takes away some of the credibility that the coach has. If it's negative or it could be the opposite right, if it's a positive conversation, then the kid wants to go see their coach. They're excited to be on the ice. So, you know, have you seen that? You know as well with the parent groups that you work with, and is that something you talk about in parent meetings? Or how do you get the parents to kind of be mindful of the conversation? They have to empower their relationship between a player and the coach rather than, you know, take it to the detriment level where the player just doesn't, you know, doesn't want to listen to the coach, thinks the coach is not adequate, or whatever it is coming from the parent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think there's only so much that we can do, Ilya, as a coach, to stop that sort of thing. We're not in the house and often we don't even hear. You know, we never know what if there's, you know, negative comments going on behind the scenes with the player in terms of destroying team cohesion or team culture. Because if a parent or anybody is planting negative thoughts in a player's head, it can keep them from buying into what it is that we as a team have put together as our culture, have agreed on as our culture, what we're trying to work on on a daily basis keeping everybody together. You know, I always tell my sled team because they're old enough to understand that before every game I always tell them listen, we're a family, we win as a family, we lose as a family, right, but in the end we love each other and regardless of what happens win, lose or draw you know you treat each other like family and and certainly something like that, the negativity going on behind the scenes, that's certainly not how you want your family to to act Right and that's not the kind of behavior that's going to help promote that positive team culture.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think the only thing that that from my perspective, anyways, that we can do is to is to meet with the parents and be very honest with them. These are the things that here's what we're playing, here's our, here's our plan, here's our culture on paper. Your kids have bought into this. This is what we want to try to accomplish, this is what we stand for, this is who we are, this is what we accept, this is what we promote. This is what we don't accept. And you know, are you, do you buy into this? And if so, here's the things that would be helpful to us as a team, and here's the things that would would be hurtful.
Speaker 2:And I think you know the things that you just talked about. Um, uh, you know kitchen talk, or whatever you want to call it. Um, where you know the parent is complaining about. Uh, you know who the who the coach put out in the third period. Uh, you know who he's got on the power play, what the drills look like in practice.
Speaker 2:You know I always say listen, if you think you can do a better job, come on out. We'd love to. We need more coaches, right? So you know, I think the only thing at least it's just my thought. The only thing that we really can do is to point it out before it ever happens. Point it out these are things that are, you know, a negative, these are things that are a detriment to our team culture. If you want your child to have a good experience, if you want your you know you want to promote your child's good experience here with this team, these are the things you can do, and I think that's you know we're somewhat limited in you know what we can do to react to that Because, like I said, I think nine times out of ten we don't even know what's happening.
Speaker 1:All right, Thank you, that was wonderful. I think it's an important topic and I'm really happy. I'm really happy that we got to explore that a little bit. I did want to ask you one more thing and bringing it back to you coaching your own son. Comparing that, I know you've been through all the levels of youth hockey. I know it's a different experience coaching your kid versus other kids and even though as coaches we treat them like any other player on the bench, but there is, you know, there's obviously a little bit of that uh, you know different experience that you're experiencing. Some parents are tougher than their kids. Some are the opposite. They're just, you know, kind of softer. So what was your experience like going through coaching him and then ultimately, you know, transitioning it to just coaching?
Speaker 2:I was terrible at it. I was terrible at it, I was the worst, I was the worst. And so I coached him until he turned 12 and and then I made the conscious decision I'm, I went back to coach our, our, our square travel team nine and 10 year olds, and and then I went from there all the way back to to the initiation group and was there for 22 years. But I, you know, I knew, I knew when I was coaching, I mean I loved coaching, I really loved, even way back then. I loved the the process of coaching and teaching, and but I was way too hard on him. I mean I, I, he was, he was as as a, especially as a younger player, he was very good relative to the kids he was playing with, and I probably, you know, did not give him the credit that he probably was due, because I didn't want to make it look as though I was, you know, I was that coach that was favoring his own kid Right and, and so that was one extreme. But then, on the other extreme, you know, I wanted so badly for him to succeed and, like every parent, you know, I mean, I broke all the rules, everything that I've just been talking about for terrible parenting. I mean, I think I got there by, you know, by doing most of it Right, and so, yeah, I was.
Speaker 2:I remember one one situation that it was, I think it was kind of when the white ball went off and he, he was, he was going after the puck, you know, down in our end and he went by the bench, just kind of instinctively blurted out will you skate? He stopped dead. He looked me in the eyes and he said I am, and the other two coaches looked at me like, oh boy, I think you just crossed the line and the light bulb went off and and he, you, you know, he taught me a very good lesson, like you know, and I think back then I was a little bit more vocal from the bench and I that was also helpful for him to shut me up a little bit. But yeah, I was not good at coaching my own kid and I realized it and I, so I I stopped coaching him, turned him over to some other, you know, very capable coaches and he had a, you know he was, he was, you know, kind of a middle of the road player.
Speaker 2:He ended up having a very good high school career. He wasn't a star by any means, he was a, you know, second liner and by by his senior year and he has, I think, very good memories of playing high school hockey and, and you know, he's played at men's hockey on and off and he still loves the sport. He coaches with me. He's coached with me with the little guys, for you know, since, basically since he got out of high school when he was home from college and then when he graduated, he's in the area. So he still helps me with that team and he and he loves coaching the sled hockey team as well. So he's still involved in hockey and I didn't scare him away completely.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was good to. You know, I think if you coach your kid all the way through, it is, I think, good at some point to let them go and let somebody else coach them Because, if for no other reason, just to give them another perspective, because we have a certain way that we look at the game, think of the game, coach the game, and I think it's beneficial for players to play for different coaches and get, you know, get a different perspective.
Speaker 1:So, but I was bad at it to answer your question, I was really bad at it well, when I started coaching, I think I, you know, I had the same experience that you just described and I also went through my growing pains of, you know, running around the bench and yelling and and so you know well, I would be like. You know you look a little bit like a maniac out there. You know you're with eight-year-olds, you know you think you're coaching the Rangers, you know, versus the Allenters game. This is it. This is the Stanley Cup final game seven goal.
Speaker 1:You know, third game of the season. So, yeah, I definitely feel everything you just said, because I've also gone through that experience. Um, and I, you know my I also had a moment with my kid I talked about earlier in the show, uh, in my different shows uh, where you know he kind of came home after one of the practices of games. I remember he was just upset and crying and and you know, I came into the room like he just sat there at seven years old, looked right me, you know, like right in the eye and said you know, this is not working for me. You're yelling, you're always yelling, you're always like you, always.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like, and you know, my first instinct is like defensive, is like it was like wait, wait, you know, I kind of gave it a minute. I was like you know what it was like, wait, wait, you know, I kind of gave it a minute. I was like you know what it's like, I hear you, I understand you need something different. And then I kind of that kind of spiraled into changing my coaching approach since then and then I absolutely, you know, agree with you. He's been coached by other coaches. I have him training with some of my friends who are coaches who have been wonderful throughout the organization. Now he's moving up to Bantams. I have my second guy coming up who's been training with another coach who's also been amazing. So I think getting that purview and them kind of shifting through the age groups with different coaches is definitely helpful. But there is that aspect of you know you don't want to seem like your favorite kid and you want to make sure that you know it's fair, but yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 2:I mean it's, you know, in our defense. It sounds like you had a similar experience In our defense. It's a very difficult thing to do and I don't recommend it. I mean, I've I've watched people that are really good at it, that have have done it well, but they're few and far between. I think the majority of us can't handle it. It's just, we love our kids so much, we want so much for them to be successful. I mean, it's similar to what we've been talking about with parents, except that we're on the ice, you know we're, you know we're running the team, and so it is. You know we're in a different situation than they are, and I think that's why and you have more power over the team than they have, and I think that's why, you know, I and it sounds like you too, you know almost went in the opposite direction and and gave our kids short shrift, because we didn't want the optics of of looking like we're, you know, favoring our, our, our own player, you know. So it's.
Speaker 1:It's a very, very, very difficult line to to walk, and I was very happy, and so was he, when I, you know, finally said I'm not coaching you next year, thank god well, hopefully, you know, our experience kind of gives way to some of the newer parent coaches coming into the game and I'll be like, okay, well, shouldn't do that when I start out. Let's do what they're doing now, not what they did. You know they're making mistakes, not from your own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but even knowing, even kind of getting that advice up front, it's hard, it's a very hard thing. You know, when you're dealing with your kid, I think you know. Again, going back to the way my father handled it, like you know. Again, going back to the way my my father handled it, like you know, we'd be coming back from a game in high school and I'd be sitting next to him and the whole way home I would critique my game. I would list every single mistake I made in the game and he would just sit there saying mm, hmm, mm, hmm, he didn't, he had no opinion on it. He'd be like well, I guess, if you say that you stunk tonight, I guess you stunk and I, you know, I was always very hard on myself, but he never critiqued my game.
Speaker 2:I was always critiquing Patrick's game. You know what I mean when he was, when he was younger, and because I was right there. I mean if, if, if, other teammates of his were there, I probably would have been critiquing them too. It's just the way your mind works. You're going through the game and I just think it's a very difficult thing to do. Let them go and be coached by somebody else. I think that's a really in most cases, that's a really smart thing to do.
Speaker 1:Right, awesome, I love that. And I know we're a little bit over time and before we close out, I usually like to ask all my guests three questions to kind of wrap up so we can draw some parallels between different episodes and different folks. So I'm gonna fire away. It's a kind of speed fire. So first one here is in your opinion, what motivates athletes?
Speaker 2:well, I think it depends on the athlete, but I think, in general um are we talking about youth players or or athletes in general?
Speaker 1:because I think. Well, why do we make the distinction?
Speaker 2:what motivates a youth athlete versus I think youth players, what motivates them is is having fun. They want to be with their friends. They want to. They want to play a game, um, and they want to have fun. They generally are not as concerned, I think, as we are about winning a state title. I mean, I think there comes a time when that is motivating. But I think most youth players up until whatever you know 10, 12, 14, they want to have fun. They want to be with their friends. I'm 12, 14. They want to have fun. They want to be with their friends. You know, and as Lou Vero, a friend of mine, always said, no one goes to the rink to work hockey, they go to play. It's a kid's game, they go to play, right, and I think that's what motivates them.
Speaker 1:They want to play.
Speaker 2:And I think you know at the upper levels. You know being successful, being successful at their chosen endeavor, is what you know getting getting better and and being the best that they can be.
Speaker 1:Love that All right. Question two if you could name three character traits that you notice in successful athletes, what would they?
Speaker 2:be? Yeah, that's a great question, I think. Personally, I think one thing is intellect, cognitive the ability to make decisions. I don't know that it's intellect, but the ability to make decisions, especially in hockey. Hockey is especially the way it's played today, is such a fast game that it's intellect, but the ability to make decisions, especially in hockey. Hockey is especially the way it's played today is such a fast game and it's not just, you know, stick handling and skating and moving, it's being able to, at the highest levels, make decisions really quick.
Speaker 2:So I think that's not a character trait, though, but I do think the ability to make quick decisions uh, I would say, uh, you know grittiness, um, being able to, to fail and and brush it off, I think is really important because, as we talked about earlier, learning is, is or or failing and making mistakes as part of it. So you know, if you, if a kid crumbles every time he makes a mistake, if he falls apart, that's not, probably not going to be conducive to to get into the highest level, I think. I don't think this is true of everybody, but I think most successful athletes have a pretty good core values that you know. They know who they are and they like who they are and they're comfortable in their own skin. I think that's very helpful, to have the confidence to be successful.
Speaker 2:And then I think you know just loving life and you know being like enjoy, having fun. And you know I think if you don't enjoy what you're doing, I don't think you're ever going to get to that, to the next level. You, you know, I think there comes a point where it becomes a job. But I think you know before that you've got to love the game and want to play and want to have fun and and and then eventually, when you get good enough, then I think that you buckle down a little bit more. But I do think the ability to have fun and enjoy yourself in the game I think is important.
Speaker 1:Awesome Love that. And last question is kind of the opposite of that one is you know if you could talk about a few things that hold in, that can hold an athlete back?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I think kind of the opposite of those three things probably, um, and that would be, uh, you know, being too hard on yourself, being too negative, not being able to to brush things off and, you know, taking things too much to heart. You know, I think that can can kill an athlete because again you've, you're, you're going to have setbacks in in the course of of your career and I think in order to get to the next level, you got to be able to shake that off and and and you know, continue down the road and keep positive. Probably the, the inability to to get along with others. You know, if you're not, if you can't be a team player, I think in most cases that's not going to help you. I've certainly seen that in players that have been fairly successful and then hit a wall because they had a hard time getting along with their teammates, for whatever reason. They had a hard time getting along with their teammates for whatever reason, and and and lastly, I guess, just the inability to have fun and enjoy it. Right, I've actually talked to AHL players that you know you would think they they got a step away from the NHL and and were just miserable just because the amount of work involved and you know, in a lot of cases I think they just felt like all this was for naught.
Speaker 2:I didn't get to the highest level. I mean, I think you've got to enjoy where you're at right. I met a guy one time this was shortly after I started playing golf, when I was 40. I don't know, I said probably been playing for five years or something, and he said you know how? How are you? And I said I stink, but I love it, I love the game. He said well, let me give you a piece of advice Enjoy the game that you got now. Whatever your handicap is, enjoy it, because you're not going to get any better. So he said you're 40 years old, you're probably not going to get any better. But I think that's true of anybody. No matter what you're doing, and especially sports, you've got to be able to enjoy the level that you're at right in order to get to the next level. So the ability to have fun and enjoy what you're doing I think is important.
Speaker 1:Awesome. That's such a great point. I think you know when you think about again. You know being able to recover quickly from the mistakes, and we talk to the kids about it all the time. You know I love the quote by Zidane Achara I use it all the time where he said that you know, make a hundred mistakes a game, but if I think about it, you know only one maybe ends up in a scoring situation. You know, high scoring situation he's like most of them, don't yield to anything he's like, and if I sit there and think about every mistake, I won't be able to play yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, focusing on the negativity is definitely, um, you know, not conducive to, you know, to getting better. I don't think, think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, I think it's. It's one of the most important things that we teach that we talked about earlier is being able to recover from a failure or a mistake and just keep on going, because that's what life is all about.
Speaker 2:That's very true, right, it's not. It's not our best moments that define us. Right, it's how we handle the tough moments, and so, yeah, I think that's very true.
Speaker 1:Yep, all right. Well, chuck, thank you so much for jumping on the show. I think you know, I know you've gone a little close to an hour and a half here and I know you and I can probably keep talking for another three hours if you don't stop, but this has been great. I think we touched on a lot of wonderful topics and hopefully brought a little bit of value to the folks listening, you know, on the show and and listening to the show just vocally as usual. The show will be up on all the major podcast platforms tomorrow, the day after, for everybody to enjoy. And again, just thank you everybody for listening and tuning in. If you have any questions for me or Chuck, feel free to send them over and I'll be happy to share them with Chuck and get you guys some answers. So we are happy to help continue to be an asset to everybody who's listening coaches, parents and players.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Eli. I enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Thank you, chuck, and thank everybody else for listening. Stay tuned for more. Have a great evening.