The Podolskiy Method: Parenting an athlete
There is no roadmap for parenting. No "one size fits all". Together we will learn what works and what does not work. Join and listen to doctors, coaches, athletes, parents, and many other guests of all walks of life. Lets take "parenting an athlete" to the next level and give them the right tools for the job.
The Podolskiy Method: Parenting an athlete
Nurturing Champions: The Mental Game of Youth Sports
Discover the untold stories of resilience and strength as we venture into the world of youth sports with Dr. Samantha Schindelheim. Our latest episode sheds light on the mental battles young athletes face, far beyond the physical demands of their sports. From the silent pressure of early specialization to the loud chorus of social media's ever-watchful eye, we dissect the psychological challenges and triumphs of our aspiring champions. Join us for a heartfelt exploration of what it takes to nurture the next generation's mental well-being through the highs and lows of competition.
With the same intensity that our young stars bring to the field, this conversation tackles the pervasive stress and anxiety that can overshadow their achievements. We lay bare the often-overlooked need for routines and resilience, sharing the transformative impact of techniques like deep breathing and mindfulness. Listen as we reveal how the right words at the right moment—be it a self-coaching statement or a parent's reassurance—can turn the tide of a game or a mood. It's a masterclass in fostering emotional awareness for athletes and their support systems, reinforcing that the greatest victories are often won off the court.
In an era where every setback and success is amplified, we emphasize the power of mentorship and the irreplaceable role of parents in guiding their children through the rigors of sports. The episode culminates with uplifting stories of hope, courage, and the indomitable spirit of young athletes who, with the right support, learn to channel their inner champions. Whether navigating transitions, managing emotions, or simply striving for their personal best, our discussion is a testament to the importance of building self-confidence and finding joy in every leap, sprint, and goal scored.
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We'll be right back. Good evening everybody. Welcome to the Podolsky Method podcast. Thank you for joining us this evening. I'm your creator and host, coach Ilya. I'm a level five user hockey master coach, an owner and operator of a skate sharpening shop called Sharp Skate New York and a certified public accountant by trade. I want to remind you, before we jump into the episode of our partners print only with us full printing shop in New York City. If you need anything printed, even on metal, they can do anything for you. So that's amazing work in hockey.
Speaker 1:For those of you hockey players that are looking for protection for the bottom of your cage with your favorite visor, check them out. Work in hockeycom and get 10 off with one zero p o d o l s k I y, l-s-k-i-y. How is hockey? Of course, all of our hockey needs tape wax, whatever you might want, they have it 10% off with them with P-O-D-O-L-S-K-I-Y-1-0. And, of course, don't forget to check out our Junior Rangers programming at nhlcom slash rangers, slash community, slash, youth dash hockey, and it's a great way to get your kid into the game and to try it out for yourself to see if you like it. And under $300, you get full gear from head to toe and you get to try out a new sport, so it's an excellent place to start. Tonight we have a very special show for you guys. It is a topic that we've explored numerous times, but we have a specialist here with us, so I'm going to introduce Dr Samantha Schindelheim. Did I say that right?
Speaker 2:You did Nice work.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and Dr Samantha is a licensed clinical social worker. She specializes in dialectical and cognitive behavior therapy, parent and child interaction therapy, parent management training and so much more. Dr Samantha, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Maybe you could start the show with you just telling the listeners a little bit about yourself, where you are, what you do and basically how you ended up doing social work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So I'm part of a small group private practice that's based both in I'm based in Manhattan, but my other counterparts are in New Jersey and Westchester County. So we're a small group of licensed clinical social workers and psychologists and what I do is I work with young kids four and up actually four years old and up all the way adolescence and all the way to middle adulthood. But I really my passion is with children and working with parents and supporting parents. So that's what I think brings me here today.
Speaker 2:And I got into clinical social work because I just love the lens of social justice and meeting people just where they're at, figuring out some of their needs and strengths and goals and being able to support them to be the best versions of themselves. So I just think social work is such an awesome field in psychology in general and I love what I do. I offer private in-home services as well as I work with children, children, adults in virtually online now with the pandemic how the pandemic has changed that. So that's, but I love in-person work, so, yeah, and you know right off the bat.
Speaker 1:you brought up a great point you know about, you know difference between in-person and virtual. Have you seen? Is that a barrier nowadays, with you working with families and kids, versus being in-person? What do you think?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah, I see with the younger kids like it's so hard to do virtual, it just doesn't work. But with parents it's fantastic. The access and being able to meet them like online during a lunch period, like their break from work, things like that is really helpful. But definitely with the younger kids like I've had nine year olds that just like go off camera, don't want to be on, and like that's totally understandable. Like being on the computer is like too much, it's overstimulating for them and hard to connect. So, um, that's why I do offer um the in homework, because I think it's helpful to just meet people where they're at and the most comfortable is with their home and you get to observe and really see what's going on in their lives, um, at a level that can really meet them.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I find that, you know, interesting because during covid um, you know, as a coach, we had um instances where we we reopened the rings and we started practicing, but parents weren't allowed inside and a lot of coaches say that that was probably the best practices they've ever had, because the kids focus, you know, because they always look to their mom or dad for approval whenever they do something or disapproval right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it was just so much focus. When there's nobody in the building, it's just empty, yeah.
Speaker 2:The performance anxiety or the parents telling them what to do is not there, so I can imagine that for sure, right.
Speaker 1:And so, before we jump into the performance, anxiety piece. I know that athletes today, you know they undergo a tremendous amount of stress, both physically and mentally, starting at very young ages. So if we used to start sports at 10, 12 years old, now we started at three or four and we almost specialize by the age of seven. Can you talk a little bit about the stress in athletes and, you know, including those unique pressures that they face?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great point that saying just like the competition is starting, so much younger and that pressure is there, and then on top of that with social media and seeing the comparisons and it's in their face all the time.
Speaker 2:So just want to point that out.
Speaker 2:But I think you know what we're seeing in terms of the stress and pressure in particular, I think, with young athletes, is just that idea of how stress affects them physically, whether it's muscle tension that it makes it really hard to engage and relax and do the physical work on top of just the mental stress of not feeling good enough, affecting self-esteem even to a level of depression and anxiety that I notice and I think that that's a lot of.
Speaker 2:It can be internal, that's there, but it's also, like I'm saying, like the external pressure of stress that teachers are putting on them. It's just like everywhere for kids, unfortunately, it's teachers, it's parents, it's friends and peer pressure. So I think that level of stress really affects and we know affects them holistically. It affects, you know, kids physically, as I mentioned, with the muscle tension, but also with the level of stress of affecting their like breathing really fast and it affects their heart. It helps. That affects how they're gonna deal with illnesses and and get better in that way. And then again the mental pressure and the impact on anxiety and just feeling not good enough.
Speaker 1:That can affect them and in their performance in particular too yeah, you know you bring up some really valuable points and that's always a concern of mine. It's how far do you push as a coach, for example? How far do you push Because we're praised for how hard we make the kids work? And the harder they work, the better coach you are.
Speaker 2:Well, the stress is on you too.
Speaker 1:Right, Right. So so it's almost like your. Your performance is evaluated based on how hard you're pushing the kids, and sometimes, you know, taking a moment to explain something more in more detail or giving them a breather while you're doing it. Sometimes can can a detriment in some of the eyes of the observers, and so I think that the stress doesn't only apply to the kids, but to the parents too. So when you work with families, what do you usually suggest for them to kind of handle that stress, or what can they do to sustain that pressure?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I always say that it's really important to have the tools, the mental health tools, right, the strategies to handle stress. So, you know, being able to have and I say this to all my family it's like a really strong toolbox, both for the parents and for the child. It's just can be life-saving. I think and we know kids can be resilient, we know kids can handle the stress and the challenges of life, and I think that there's this point where it just gets to be too much and if they don't have the tools to be able to get through it, no one's going to be able to really support them.
Speaker 2:So some of the tools you know, the tools I'm coaching parents around that are then they're in charge of coaching their child around, using these stress management tools is deep breathing techniques, mindfulness strategies, and I'm throwing out terms. We can go into more detail but just to get an idea, you know, being able to have these distraction techniques that when they're really feeling that high stress, like get their mind off the sport, let's go do something else, let's go for a walk, let's do a visual activity, let's. You know, guided meditation is really awesome. Put yourself on a beach and let me see the like. Tell me about the waves that are coming up on the shore.
Speaker 2:All of that kind of work can be really helpful. And I think a big piece that is helpful for parents in particular is that idea of regulating themselves then helps the child regulate. So we call it co-regulation. And if the parent isn't regulated and being able to manage you know the pressure and the stress of helping their child then the child will not be able to thrive. So really being able to give the tools to both of them is important.
Speaker 1:Right, and you know, do you have any specific techniques or tools that you prefer that you would suggest like, especially when dealing with athletes? Right, and I think, especially in those high stress situations I see that's when it gets, I guess, the most escalated. Oh yeah, that's the right term. Right Is when it's a tight game, where you're watching your kid perform and even you could be winning a game and you don't think your kid is performing to your standard, and so what would you do? You have any tools or things that parents can utilize in those situations?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, one of the things is just recognizing that you're stressed. I always say that that's like the first step is just be aware, be mindful of what's going on. So I usually throw out like a scale let's do zero to a hundred, hundreds, like the most stressed, most anxious, most escalated you've ever been to zero, you're chilling, you're on that beach, you're fine, um, and let's figure out where you are, just to help yourself, kind of pinpoint that. And then, after some of the strategies that I love, like I mentioned, is guided meditation, like put yourself outside of the game right now, put yourself away from your child right now and go to your happy place.
Speaker 2:And we also call them in our world kind of grounding techniques, a way to kind of get yourself back to your baseline. So if you're like really high up there in those 90s, we want to get you back down to like even the 50s, to just be able to help yourself breathe again. So that's helpful. And also the idea of like pinpointing you know, tell me three things that you're noticing right now and you know you're noticing the ice, you're noticing the hockey stick that your child's grabbing, like just start naming things and that can help distract them and kind of regulate back to baseline. So I think that's really helpful. And then the last thing that I find really great is just having some self-coaching statements like my kid's going to be OK, they can get through this, I can get through this. They did really awesome last week. I'm excited that I know they can do it. Let me remember that moment to help them get through that stressful moment in particular.
Speaker 1:Right and and so, in that sense, when the parent levels themselves or coach themselves, they can then begin to assist the child in leveling themselves off.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's almost like that thing in a plane. Right, Put your mask on before you put it on your kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You've got to take care of yourself. You're not going to be a good parent if you can't take care of yourself. I always say that, or you're not going to be the best version of who you can be for your kid without taking care of yourself. You come first actually in self-care, and the other idea is modeling right, being able to model these regulation techniques so then your child can pick up on and be like okay, my mom's calm.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be calm, right, right, that's so important, I think, how much the kids feed off the parents and the coaches.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I see it all the time where, like, a parent is high stress and the kid's just rolling their eyes like, oh my God, like, and it creates embarrassment, shame, you know, I don't want to be around that parent and being able to see that, okay, my parent can handle this.
Speaker 1:This is hard, but we got this is so helpful, yeah, yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the performance anxiety, yeah Right, and then being in that, you know in that situation where you know when you're in a game or you're getting ready for a game and you start getting those butterflies, you get nervous, you're getting performance anxiety. And how have you seen it manifest itself in athletes, and are the signs different based on age or male versus female?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I would say for any age. We see it where, when there's performance anxiety, you kind of want to run. Anxiety creates fear, and it's just like I don't want to do this, and we run away from the problem, right that's at hand, or the anxious situation. And I think, though, the older you get, the more mature and more able you're able to handle performance anxiety. So I think it's staying there and being able to confront it, but the butterflies might be bigger.
Speaker 2:That feeling of nauseousness or you know whatever's going on, racing thoughts get bigger and bigger because it's harder to run away from it. And I think the beautiful thing about performance anxiety is that the more we're exposed to it, actually, the better we can handle it, and that goes for any type of anxiety. So that can be helpful. But some of the things that I see a lot of is just the physical sensations that we encounter when we have performance anxiety the sweaty palms, the sweating forehead, the heart beating extremely fast, the desire to want to run away, of course, like I'm mentioning, and on top of that is just these like racing anxious thoughts that just makes it so much harder to confront the anxiety and be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it's interesting because I don't think I had anxiety until I was older. Personally, I actually did personally do some of those techniques that you spoke about and my wife kind of got me to, like you know, look at things and kind of call out the colors and things that you're seeing that calms you down right? So you just mentioned that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I didn't know anything about it until you know, like I felt, you know, dizzy and uncomfortable and just weird out of nowhere, and, you know, not sick or anything but weird yeah, but weird. And so I feel I've been an athlete my whole life almost my whole life, I should say and whether it was martial arts or hockey or any other sport, I would always get very nervous. Before I would compete, I loved practice. I was never nervous in practice, but when it came to competition, my nerves would skyrocket, and so I would implement a pregame or pre-competition routine that I would go through. They would calm me down. So can you talk a little bit about that and how they can help athletes in their performance?
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. Needs in their performance? Yeah for sure. I think you know routine can be really helpful and really calming. To have something that you're going through every time that you know can help you right. And that's the whole idea with these skills is that you want to find something that's effective. So if your routine calms you and is effective, then you want to go through it and having your routine of whether it's having that pep talk with your coach, pep talk with your parent and that support Some people have like superstitions where they're wearing a certain underwear, certain you know wearing certain clothes that helps them, they know is going to be good to have.
Speaker 2:You know, having a certain meal that they know like won't upset their stomach when they're having those jitters, and that routine can be really helpful. Um, and then I think it's about using those techniques and having that routine of all. Right, I'm gonna go through some breathing techniques right now. Every time when I'm, you know, getting ready for that game to start, um, I'm gonna sing this song in my head. I was, I was a swimmer in high school and I from finding nemo, I had this the just keep swimming, just keep swimming.
Speaker 1:That going through my head.
Speaker 2:So that was my routine of just like putting it when I'm getting up to the, to the diving board. So some of those techniques can be really helpful in having that routine for sure, going through the same thing each week and, I think, also noticing if you need that higher self-esteem in those moments to tap into that, whether it's reaching out to a friend or reaching out to your teammate to say, hey, I'm nervous now, get me in that mode, let me help me get through this right now. But I didn't mention before that I think is also helpful is reaching out for that social support.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, but can anxiety rub off? You know, when you're on the bench and everybody's kind of losing their mind you know, when it rubs off, how do you handle it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I think what can be helpful is coaches being attuned to that too and being aware of like, hey, how's my team doing? What's going on? Let me check in with everyone and see where we're at. And then you know one-on-one with your teammates and seeing that you know this person's making me anxious and being attuned to that and saying you know what, maybe it's not a good idea to be around this. Maybe I need some space to myself, or having you know, let me go get that pepped off for my parent instead right now. Um, because definitely I think the question is oh, he's anxious, okay, should I be anxious now? Do it like what's going on? Or wow, this game is really competitive. This we're not doing so hot right now.
Speaker 1:I need some support and um, it's not good to look at the other people who are also like freaking out and bugging out right now yeah, I feel like, as a coach, uh, you know, I definitely been uh in instances where I was anxious, you know, and I had to kind of not show it yeah, because I didn't make it till you make it right.
Speaker 1:Right, we had a very interesting experience last spring where we were um in the championship game, in the tournament and we were down, uh, 5-1. And you know this is in the first period, uh. And so you know, I took a time out, kind of come to everybody down and just said you know you're gonna go one goal at a time, yeah, one play at a time, they just keep playing. Yeah, you know, the goal was kind of flipping out and I was like you know, just get in there and stop every puck you can and every puck you see, just one puck at a time. And then we ended up coming back tying the game and winning in overtime.
Speaker 1:Oh, amazing it was a spectacular moment for everybody involved, I think, especially for the kids, and there were parents who were leaving the arena. Wow, there were parents that were walking out and when they walked back in and saw that the score was 5-4 or 5-5 and you're going into overtime. And then, ultimately, we won the shootout, which was nerve-wracking itself. But the comeback, you know, I think it taught a lot of people a valuable lesson about giving up too early. Yeah, you know, and even for me, you know, we had, you know, with the coaching staff and keeping ourselves in tune and believing that, hey, we got the right group here and we can win, was, you know, just a game changer. That was a really great experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when I think about those moments you know, translate into life, I feel like we don't do that very well. We kind of tend to do the opposite in real life, right, when somebody gets a bad grade, we get upset, we yell. We don't think in terms of, hey, you know, let's chip away at it, let's try to get back to, you know, the green if you're in the red, you know, and let's try to get back on track. So what do you usually, you know, talk to parents about? How can you help them get back to the green? You know, get them back to that, you know. I believe things are going to be good or better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, congratulations, because that's an amazing feat to come from all the way, all the way one to get past and win it.
Speaker 2:It's great and you're right. I think you show with parents that, like you know, giving up is just it's not worth it, because look where we can go right. And so when I'm working with parents, especially when they're really struggling with their child, either they're having low self-esteem or they're struggling with just getting their kid back into being you know the kid that they're used to and they're like I keep mentioning this baseline of like just a happy, well-adjusted, able to handle the different challenges with their sport child. It's really hard to feel like that it's not on you as the parent that you're not causing it, and I think that's a big conversation I have with a lot of parents is like it's not on you as the parent that you're not causing it, and I think that's a big conversation I have with a lot of parents is like it's not all you here. You are so much more of their support system and able to get them back to where they are and at the same time, there's so many other stressors in their lives that are impacting them.
Speaker 2:And it's not like you're causing it or you're the reason that they're struggling.
Speaker 2:So I think a lot of the work with parents, getting them back into green is just believing in themselves as a parent, that you are their biggest ally and their biggest coach.
Speaker 2:And then, at the same time, it's like you have to face these stressors, too, of we can't run away. And I think when you were describing the parents leaving the stadium, I was like, oh no, what is this showing these kids? Right? And that's just like, in certain ways, I'm like, okay, if that's the parent that's really angry and frustrated, that like that and was going to lash out at the arena if the kid's not doing well or the team's not doing well, like okay, he needs to or she needs to leave the room, but if you're the parent that like really believes in your kid and wants to show them that, then you got to stay there for for all these moments, um, and that that's really important getting, yeah, yeah, yeah, and to your point, I think it's, it's almost like a skill of, uh, you know, and what I like to say in the first day when I'm coaching, the first day we start training I, you have to learn to lose in order to learn to win.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's, great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't do it in reverse. You've got to know how to lose, you've got to be there, play through the moment and you know there are times where you make it to the finals and lose by a goal. And you get in the locker room and everybody's crying and it's like no, don't cry. You crying and parents like no, don't cry, it's all, you know, it's fine. Like don't cry, don't cry, like don't be upset, and I was like no, it's good to be upset. Yes, it's good to be upset, it's fine, it should be upset.
Speaker 1:We lost, we didn't want to lose yeah, exactly, it's good to go through those emotions and through that state of mind and be like, okay, you know, let's take it in, like that's not a good feeling, we don't like it. You want to okay, you know, let's take it in Like that's not a good feeling, we don't like it. We want to try to, you know, do something different. We want to work harder. We're going to get back here and win next time, but it's okay to work through the disappointment.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that. Life's about all the emotions. So you know, if you can't feel it, you can't ride that roller coaster, then it's going to be really tough to be able to get through these moments.
Speaker 1:And I love that you mentioned earlier about. You know that the more you face anxiety, the better you get at it. It's almost the same idea, right? Because it's almost like practice. Yeah, totally, you lose if you go through those moments and you do it in sports, where there's you don't really lose anything, right?
Speaker 1:So if you lost the game, okay, what happened? Nothing happened. You're going to go play another one in two days or even tomorrow, right, you're right back at it the next day. But working through that, when you get to your real life and adulthood, I feel like that training starts paying off. And if you know, your boss comes in and says no, you messed up here. You're not going to go under the table and curl up. You're going to be like, okay, well, let's fix it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's why I think, with some of these kids in sports who are highly sensitive, where the array of feelings that result from a sport Like you're not always going to be that winner, right, you're not going to be able to always be able to get shots in every game and make all those goals, and so being able to understand that at such an early age it can be really hard. At the same time, it's such a great way to build resilience and to be able to to be able to move forward, um, and be a better player in general, because you're you're okay with that.
Speaker 1:You right, yeah, yeah, and even taking criticism from our parents. Right, because that's a tough job for any child, even as adults. I know we struggle as adults dealing with our parents who are now older, but still older adults. They have set in their ways and sometimes those ways are not very conducive to our environment or the way we choose to live our lives. They become clashes where we have a hard time interacting yeah you know, I I feel so I wanted to.
Speaker 1:Uh, actually, before we jump into my next question, there's a little question that comes in here. What if the child is initially a nervous type and it took me a long time to get him to a calmer state?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I think that you know, in life in general, nervousness, anxiety, is going to be there and there are some kids that are more nervous like this question is hinting to than others. And being able to take as much time as you can to get that kid, to get that kid being able to understand that they can calm down and they can use their skills and not rushing.
Speaker 2:It is so important and it sounds like just from this question that you know this is a kid who tends to be more nervous and having that increased anxiety or that increased nervousness, that stress, is actually really helpful for them because it's telling them to you know, this isn't safe, right, this, whatever is going on isn't safe or whatever I'm doing is not going to be good, and that's helpful information and that keeps them in a really understandable, smart position. But the more they learn skills and the more they're able to start calming down, they're going to be able to do it much faster and that's really important is being able to just get, like you're saying, the practice going and being able to teach them. You know this is what we're going to do to help you calm down and get in the zone to be able to do really well in this game, and that can be really helpful. So I think taking as much time as you can to work with your kid on calming them down is really important.
Speaker 1:Yep, thank you, that was a good question. And so you know, kind of coming back a little bit to what we know, grew up in a harsher environment, I want to say, and went through some difficult times, and so they almost sometimes it's hard for them to make the step to be there for their kids, yeah, uh, meaning like to show up simply to show up to a game or show up to their uh kids events and just to be there for them, um, not because you want to be there or because not because you know that's something that they need. So, meeting your kids where they they are, as opposed to, um, having them create a relationship with you and maintain and so I want to talk a little bit about that what you're seeing with older uh generations, um, you know, and how that translates into the younger groups.
Speaker 2:Now, yeah, yeah, what. I see a lot of this idea of tough love and we throw that term out you know that they can just handle it. Like there's who cares about these skills of co-regulation, right, like just you got to do it, get out there. And that creates more anxiety and there's different stressors in our society now that are just adding to the fuel to the fire. Like I had mentioned, social media and competition and the power of you know, just knowing what this kid's better than me, and comparison and all that kind of stuff. That that's a big thing where the generational gap didn't help in many ways in being able to give people the tools to emotionally regulate, to handle stress, and so I think it's a problem and it's a need to connect more with parents and I think there's a shift going on right now of teaching parents skills and strategies to really be able to help themselves and help their kid. But the desire has to be there to want it right and being able to fix that gap of like so many people saying you know what they can handle it, they're on their own right now, like I did my work or I'm done with this, or that my parents didn't do this for me. So why do I need to show up to all these games? Right? And so I think that a big connection is to well, okay, what, what, what do you want?
Speaker 2:If you take away, you know, the expectations of society or the expectations that your parents put on you, you know inside, what do you think is important to you? Is it showing up for your kid? Is it being there, teaching them these valuable skills so that they can be resilient and be able to handle, like, all of the emotions that come and that you have to ride out when you're playing a really competitive sport? So I think that that can be really helpful. When I meet with parents one-on-one, I love doing that work and touching base around. You know what are your goals here? Forget what your parents expected of you when you were a kid, but also tapping into, like what their childhood was like and saying like, okay, what would be helpful here to change? If you could change something, what would it be? So I think connecting with that generation is so, so important right now if you find that they're willing to do it.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and you know, like I think that the way we teach kids now they're a lot more emotionally aware than what we grew up with. I'll give you a great example where my wife and I were talking and our six-year-old walks in and we're like can you give us a minute to finish the conversation? He turns around and says you made me feel sad and walks away and you're like okay, well, that was cool, and he'll do that all the time, like he'll come in and be like you made me feel like this, and he literally articulates and tells you exactly what he's feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know as a kid, I know I never did that you know I wasn't that emotionally aware of you know my state or being. It's usually, and it usually ended up in frustration or anger, right, because people just didn't understand and you didn't understand, right, you'd never say it to your parent because they wouldn't understand.
Speaker 1:Right. They didn't understand right and you'd never say it to your parent because they wouldn't understand right. And so I feel like that has changed significantly and even as a coach, when I'm coaching kids, I tend to now speak to them in those words and you know, I'll be coaching like a seven-year-old and I'll be like that did not make me feel good because you did this and that. And then putting that onto the table and hopefully they mirror that behavior and can explain to me that, hey, coach, that drill didn't feel good, yeah, that didn't feel right. That you know that's not me, I can't. You know that's not my game, that's not my style. Right, and helping those kids finding their own style in the game, in the team game, I think is just so critical that not a lot of coaches and parents do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And what you're describing in the mental health world is called emotions identification. So being able to say this is how I feel, this is what's going on for me right now, and that's the first step in being able to say, okay, now that I feel this way, what am I going to do about it. And so by saying, hey, coach, like this is where I'm at, this is what I'm feeling, then you as a coach can say, okay, let's try this or let's change this around. Or, as a parent, can say, okay, I think that's helpful. Now I know that I need to do something differently or we need to approach this differently in helping you, right. So that level of communication you're right can be so helpful.
Speaker 2:And I think that you know being able to be valid in understanding that child and being able to say you know, I want to do something about it, now that you've shared that with me is super important, because I imagine you know your 16-year-old is setting themselves up for vulnerability by saying this is how I feel. Who knows what my dad might do with it. And it's great that you're able to say hey, that's cool that you shared that and that you said that, rather than I don't care that you feel this way, or why are you telling me this? Because you know now you're making me feel bad, or however, you spin it Right In a negative way. So I think that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, no, take care, appreciate that. And you know, thinking about the emotional identification and just thinking about being able to express yourself that way, you know I'm going difficult time finding ways to assist kids where parents are going through a separation. It's unfortunately, it's more often now than it's ever been. We have kids in sports who are struggling with dealing with those emotions, sports who are struggling with dealing with those emotions, and you know I always look for ways to kind of be an asset in that situation without, you know, be without inserting myself in that situation, being able to help the child process. Yeah, so what do you usually do when you're dealing with families? They're separate or moving or things like that.
Speaker 2:Well you're hinting on also. I just want to say that we talk about sports being stressful. It's also so therapeutic, and I think you're hinting at how sports can be therapeutic. Either it's the coach who's the number one fan of the kid, or it's just a great outlet for a kid to be able to go after school when their parents are struggling or going through a separation, and this is their space, their safe space, their calming space. So I think that that's really important and it's the same thing that I'm. My answer around this is basically a lot of the work with kids is being able to meet them where they're at, in the sense of their parents are going through a separation.
Speaker 2:You don't want to, as you're saying, interject or put anything into how they should feel or shouldn't feel in the situation, so you want to give them the space to express themselves and say you know this is for you, this is your safe space to say how you're feeling about what's going on and just being there for them. I think that's important. And then giving them the tools because I imagine the home can be a hostile place making sure that they have, like if they're in their sport and they're really enjoying their sport. Put more of that out there. Give them more extracurriculars to enjoy. Make sure that, if it's possible, that the coach is aware of what's going on so that they can say how are you doing today? Just checking in, making sure that they have that the social support, that they have friends around them and they have that outlet the teammates. Not that they need to be aware of what's going on personally, but just that they have that support there if they need it and want it, and so I think that that's really helpful.
Speaker 2:On top of that, I think you know it can be difficult working with parents when both are separated and that can be contentious and conflictual. As a coach I would say is just, you know, sharing, you know as much positive things about the child and kind of directing them into that of like hey, he did really great at practice today. Like I'm really glad. If you know he needs more support, let me know. Great at practice today, like I'm really glad. If you know he needs more support, let me know. Let's keep this open dialogue going on and being there for the parents in a way of helping the kid deal with whatever's going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's great. Thank you so much for that insight. I think that's very helpful. What about separation anxiety for the child when, as they grow through classmates or teams? Right, I mean, you know, I know for me it's very difficult to graduate kids. You know, my wife is a teacher as well, and so she goes. She's like that's part of the job, you know, you teach them, you let them go and the next one's coming. And I was like, well, you know, I don't have as much experience as her in this field. And then you coach, you give for two, three years and then you know they kind of grow out of your purview and then move on to either a different team, different organization, different coach, and you still, you know, you're still connected, you still talk to the family. But for the child to go through that like, hey, these were my buddies for the last two, three years and now I'm in a whole new space. So what do you usually do to help the child get through that anxiety and that stress?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. Yeah, I think a big piece first of all is celebrating the accomplishments and the valuable friendships, the valuable relationship they've had with their coach, that belonging of being on a team and mourning that is really valid, but we also want to celebrate how much, what a big deal it is that they had that right. So that's the first part I would say is like really saying like hey, you're graduating right now, this is a celebration for you, this is awesome. And then I think the next part what you're graduating right now, this is a celebration for you, this is awesome. And then I think the next part, what you're saying is checking in on that kid and saying I'm here, you know, I want you to blossom, I want you to go to your next coach and your next team and do really awesome.
Speaker 2:But let me you know. Let you know that I'm here if you need me, and I think that's good. I think also I like to help the kid talk about what are the things that you're really excited about in the next adventure that you're embarking on. You know what are what's really cool about your new team, whether it's like the mascot or you know the arena you're playing at, things like that and then on top of that is accepting and being OK with what are you going to miss? Like, let's talk about that, and that's understandable too. This is kind of you know, I'll label it as grief. You're mourning the loss of this experience that you're not going to have. It's going to be a different experience. I'm positive it's going to be a really great one for you, even though it's going to be hard for you to see that right now. But as much normalizing and validating their feelings and whatever they're feeling is so important, I think, especially normalizing it with separation, anxiety. It's a change, it's a difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. And you know, I had a funny story because I was coaching my 6U team six-year-old and I had this one kid who is older and he just keeps coming into my group. So after a couple weeks the father calls me over and goes like hey, um, you know, my kid is supposed to be with the older kids. He just loves you. He doesn't want to leave. Can you talk to him? So I pulled him over and I was like what's that? I was like buddy.
Speaker 1:I was like you know, you, you're really good, you're really good man. I was like you know you, you're really good, you're really good man. I was like you know, can you do me a favor, can you try playing with those guys? I was like I'll be right here, I'll be on the same ice just coaching the little guys, but I'll be watching you. I was like but can you try that for me and see if you like it? I was like, if you don't like, you, come back. Yeah, but I want you to try it because you're really good and I think you, you know you, you got a great, like you said, graduate yeah, I was like you know, and so he's like okay, coach.
Speaker 1:And he just went, you know, but I had no idea that that's what he was doing until the father told me he's like hey, coach, like he should be. I was like I thought they just kept sending him to me. I was like I don know why.
Speaker 2:I just didn't say anything. Yeah, it's a testament to you.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, well, thank you, but, yeah, but I love that you know you brought that up, because I think that it's such a different approach as opposed to saying hey, you know, you can no longer train with me, you got to go train with that guy, yeah, yeah, and without explaining to the child why you're moving him, why this is happening. Right, because it does create anxiety and your first thought is usually negative.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like, yeah, I did something wrong because he's like me right.
Speaker 2:Totally. There's so much internalized there and you're right, I think that a big thing is with kids. We tend to shy away and think that we don't want to give them as much information as they so that it'll decrease their anxiety. But in a sense we really want to do it as age appropriately as possible. Give information, help explain why something is going on, because the more they're wondering, the more they're confused. The increased shame develops, the increased anxiety develops, and it's just not fair. So I love that idea Just give them the information and help them understand. You know you're graduating, you're moving on. Because you did it, you're congrats.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. And you know, I guess this kind of prompts the next question about playing at a. You know, making a lower team, right, and so you have three teams and you made the second or third team and a lot of parents, and you know, kind of get upset over it because they feel like it should be on the higher team and this and that Right, and so that adds anxiety to the child. You'd be on the higher team and this and that right, so that adds anxiety to the child. And I talk a lot about it on the show, what I call kitchen talk, where parents start talking negatively about the coaches, the organization, this that as opposed to letting the kid kind of experience the moment, right.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And playing on the second and third team doesn't mean you're a better player. It just means you have room to grow and you can make it back to the first team. You just got to work a little harder and so using that as a motivation factor as opposed to you know an excuse to blame, you know the circumstances. So what do you usually recommend for kids and parents in those situations?
Speaker 2:Well, you're hinting on what we call a defense mechanism, that the fallback is to be defensive and say it's the coach's problem, it's the team's problem. My kid didn't perform well because of whatever happened, you know, and I think that the idea of helping the parent accept that you know this is the result. It's not what you intended and you wanted, and that's okay, and giving them that level of acceptance is really important. I think that that's one thing. I think what you're hinting at too is just letting the kid really be able to feel whatever they feel and helping the parent take their feelings and keeping them inside or giving them a space somewhere else to express that, because it's not fair for the kid to be putting that on them, like you're saying, and you know that kitchen talk should remain in the kitchen and the child should be in the bedroom if you're having that type of talk right, like not there, not in front of the kid.
Speaker 2:It's just not fair to them and I think that that you know that's important. And once the kid is really being able to feel however they feel, inviting the parent to be that space for them to talk about and say I'm disappointed, I didn therapeutic, but it's just my own philosophy around like everything happens for a reason. I truly, truly believe that and I'm not very into like you know, like strange things, but I just feel like we just have like there's a reason a kid doesn't isn't put on that excellent, the excelling team for the beginning, that there's a learning experience that really can help this kid here and I think that that's something I do really work with parents on is what can we help and teach the kid to grow from this? Like? Your kid deserves the opportunity to learn from this, even if it's not the ultimate best answer.
Speaker 2:Here we're teaching them how to accept challenges, we're teaching them how to be resilient, we're teaching them how to deal with their emotions and that's all really good. It's not a great situation. It's not, maybe, in your eyes, a fair situation. Maybe the coach was not fair toward your child in this. Who knows what happened, and we're going to accept it. We're going to validate how you feel about this and move on to help this kid do the best that they can, on whatever team they're on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that also opens you up to mentorship, right, like being able to accept somebody's mentorship or guidance, like even now in my regular job as an intern. You know, as a CPA, I have mentors and folks that help me get better every day. And, you know, despite me being very well into my career, you know, and proving myself in many areas of the work, I still look for ways to learn and improve myself Absolutely. And you know, there's so many visions and so many different styles and somebody would come in and say, hey, have you thought of this? You're like, wow, that's a really different way of thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that you know, and so what we just talked about kind of prepares them and gives them the opportunity to be like okay, you know that's not what I wanted now, but if I want to get there, what are the steps I have to take to do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's the road?
Speaker 1:ahead. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just going to say we call this also in the mental health world kind of reframing your thoughts in the mental health world. Kind of reframing your thoughts, rethinking it in a different way that can be more adaptive, help you to, you know, get through and learn something from the situation, rather than being stuck in this mindset of like this is just sucks and it's not going to get any better.
Speaker 1:Right and I'm not going to get any better Sorry.
Speaker 1:Right, no, you're absolutely right. I think that I always try to get folks out of that what I call like a victim mentality. You know where you feel like things are happening against you as opposed to for you. So everything that happens like we lost somebody's. You know your goal and somebody scored a goal on you. You're like, oh man man, you know, like the defenseman messed up, the coach didn't do this, everybody's fault. And then you're not owning your mistakes. So I always tell the kids, you know, when I coach, one of the things they always say is do not let somebody else own your mistake yeah, it's yours, and if you want to get better, you have to own it and sometimes own somebody else's.
Speaker 1:Take on more of those mistakes, because that's how you're going to grow. You're not going to grow if you say it's everybody else's fault.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I love that. And the other thing that I do think is helpful for parents, too, and coaches is that they can have those moments. They can have those moments of feeling like it's everyone else's fault and it sucks, like I will have kids come into my session. Here's your punching bag. You get five minutes, throw it out there and you can do that. That is totally, totally fine. Go right ahead After those five minutes. We're working on adaptive thoughts, we're working on coping. We're working on seeing this in a very different light.
Speaker 1:But right now you get your five minute punching bag and I think that helps too.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. Yeah, that's a great idea. I actually have a punching bag in my house. I should. Yeah, I, I don't have a punching bag, but I use the pillow close it up.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I'll tell you know when the kids get really mad I'll be like go home and yell at the pillow and then come back.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, but you only get five minutes for it.
Speaker 1:Don't yell at me. Go home and yell at the pillow. I should start carrying one to practice. I do want to switch gears slightly here. I know you know we're coming up on the hour, but you know we can go a little bit longer. I want to talk a little bit about working with kids with special needs and you know I have some projects in the works and I tend to work with a lot of kids who have ADHD or dyslexia and it's not really severe, you know, not always severe issues like mental health issues or like Down syndrome, even though I had kids in learn to play programs where kids were, um, you're dealing with those issues, um, and I did have kids with physical impairments. I had a kid who walked only on his toes and so actually the doctor recommended he does hockey and so I was coaching him with the doctor's um support to, because in the skate you can't elevate your heel oh, what a great suggestion yeah, and after a year he actually started walking normally.
Speaker 1:It was really cool to see that the hockey was actually, uh, something that helped him in, you know, physically in to fix this deformity. So I want to talk to you a little bit about working with kids with special needs and how we can utilize the sports to help progress them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, in terms of my work with special needs, I've worked with kids on the autism spectrum a bunch, and with kids on the spectrum in particular. Sports can be really helpful with an added component of teaching them social skills too, and so I think that that's one piece that you know I'd love to see more of actually is just coaches being aware of how can you implement more social strategies and social skills and helping kids interact in a really positive way with one another in an appropriate way, with one another how to ask, like appropriate questions and engage with each other in that way.
Speaker 2:So I think in that I really worked with with children. In terms of more developmental challenges, I've worked with kids with learning difficulties and they often find that sports can be a way to feel more normal because there's less pressure around performance academically. So it's a nice outlet to be able to excel without you know pen and paper, without reading, without those types of pressures. So in terms of, um, children with learning difficulties, I've really seen sports to be helpful too. Um, so those are the two, I think, main areas of children with special needs I've worked with where I found that sports can be such a brilliant way of it's almost, as I was saying before, sports therapy right, right and so, um, you know, obviously, you know, I think in us it's a growing um, a growing field, I want to say, just because I think the spectrum for autism has been extended quite a bit and right.
Speaker 1:So the regulations are very different than what they used to be. Yeah, and I think you know we are taught as coaches also to recognize that all the more and to recognize kids with those special needs. I actually had a kid in an interesting story where we were at a tournament, an outdoor tournament with kids, and we are again in the finals and my best players are really, really nervous Because it's a one-goal game and they're just so nervous and I could tell, and I had a kid who had special needs. I don't think he was assessed, but basically I knew that he didn't care, he wasn't nervous, he wasn't scared, he actually probably didn't even know what score it was. And so I pulled him over and I said I need you to just go out there and get me the puck. Wherever it is, I want you to go and get it. So he chased down every single person, stole the puck from everybody.
Speaker 1:He didn't want anybody to touch you for two minutes everyone again, and I was like dude, so you're the hero yeah, you did it yeah, and just because he didn't have that, that emotional stress that had and and this kid, you know he was actually very good at school and things like that, but there was certain social aspects that he lacked or whatever, and I was like that's an asset.
Speaker 2:You could use that Absolutely, absolutely. I think that's where we see so much brilliance in people and in talent in their sports, like there is something very special about people who are able to excel at the level of competitive sports where, when the stress does not affect them Right or a mental health disorder.
Speaker 1:Right, right, you know, as they say, you know you gotta be a little bit crazy to to be an athlete, right? You know we usually say that about goalies, cause you get hit with pucks all day long and you're like you gotta be a special person to stand there and get hit with these You're okay with that, yeah, with these pucks.
Speaker 1:Over and over again, people just throw things at you and you're like, yep, I got this and you don't even flinch. Right, right, they're very mentally strong people Made of steel. Yeah, kudos to those. I know we're coming up on the hour and thank you so much, dr Samantha, for jumping on. I always like to close out the show with a little rapid fire. A couple of questions, if you don't mind Please no. All right, we'll start with the first one about what do you think motivates athletes?
Speaker 2:Ooh, great question. I think the love of what they're doing the game winning, of course is there, I'm sure, that feeling of feeling the accolades of getting that gold medal in front of their face. So I think that's that of feeling the accolades of getting that gold medal in front of their face. So I think that's that. I also hope it's for athletes who are on a team sport together, that they're teammates and having that encouragement and that love of doing something together.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Second one is if you would name three character traits that you notice in successful athletes, what would they be?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think self-confidence is one, I think definitely perseverance, and then I would also say is oh gosh. I don't know how to make this into a treat, but like love for something, like really passionate, passionate individual. There we go, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, I love that. Yeah, and I think you know there's like perseverance and being able to stay, you know, work through those moments that you and I were talking about just being able to work through the stress, and it's such a key, you know, such a key moment if you see in those successful athletes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. Getting through it all, oh sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, absolutely One more here. If you could name three things that can hold an athlete back, what would they be?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, performance anxiety, for sure, we know that. I think. Self-doubt, I think the low self-confidence is such a big one that just messes us up. Um, if you don't feel like you can do it, it's too, it's, we're not going to be successful. Um, and then another thing that really holds athletes back, I think it's. Um, I think also in reference to what is helpful, is the lack of passion when we're not really loving it and we're not doing. We're not in it for ourselves.
Speaker 1:Right, if that makes sense. Right, yeah, like if you're playing a sport because your mama or dad made you versus because you want to.
Speaker 2:I see that all the time, that difficulty of determining are you in it for you or are you in it for someone else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I find that you know a lot of times that parents tend to live vicariously through their kids and kind of like hey, I always wanted to be a hockey player, so you're going to be a hockey player, yes, yes hey, I always want to be a hockey player, so you're going to be happy. Yes, I really want to be a figure skater. No, you're going to be a hockey player because absolutely yeah, I went.
Speaker 2:I did softball for so many years because I knew I thought my dad wanted me to do softball and I was miserable. So that's where that bad comment is coming from, like if it's not in it, it's not worth it for you or anyone else yeah.
Speaker 1:So maybe we could kind of, before we wrap up, talk a little bit about the self-confidence aspect because I love that and I think it's so difficult to maintain it, uh, especially with, you know, bullying, hazing.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know social media stuff that that's happening now and you have a kid who is on the top team but then he's gonna, you know, he has a bad game and the coach puts him on the third line and then all the other kids start picking him and you're this, you're that, you're no good this and that, and so you know getting out of the rut and getting building your self-confidence. So do you have maybe a couple of things that kids and parents can utilize in their tool belt to get that self-confidence up?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I tell parents at an early age, at your child's early kids, to circle of like 25 self-affirmations that feel that really feel right for them and that they could see themselves saying to their kid or they can their kid, the kid feels like they can say. So having those and I also call them cheerleading statements or self-talk statements having those positive thoughts in your head to be able to get yourself through something is I think that's really important in your head. To be able to get yourself through something is I think that's really important. And doing it kind of religiously in a way of like when I wake up in the morning I'm going to write them. You know, I have them write them for girls like in lipstick on their mirror and being reading them over and over again or having them on their cell phone and their notes and just like really ingraining it in your mind.
Speaker 2:I think that could be helpful.
Speaker 2:I also think, getting the parent to really have some statements that they truly believe that they can start saying to their child you know, this is hard and I know you can do it, I've seen you do it before and being able to kind of coach them through it, I think that's important.
Speaker 2:Reminding them and having them write down some moments that were really great for them, you know, on the field, in the rink, in the arena. Remember that time, remember last week when you felt so good about yourself, and being able to tap into that again. I think that's also really important. And having, like I said, that pep talk from, I think, a coach, from someone who is a mentor to them or an ally of theirs, a friend, someone who can say you know, I know this is hard, I get it and validate that and at the same time, say you're awesome, I think you're great, I think you can do this. So those are some of the strategies I think can be the most useful. A lot of it, though, has to come inside and get getting in there. So, for sure, being able to help that kid as much as possible to feel it not just externally, but internally is so important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, if I can add to that, like I had a recent moment with with my son where you know there's there's tryouts and there was a lot of nerve wracking, you know, rather around making the team or where he's going, and and you know I had this conversation with him when I said I don't care if you're playing on the top team or on the bottom team, I said I don't care what people say, I don don't care what they're going to come in and say, oh, Coach Hassan didn't make the team, or Coach.
Speaker 1:Hassan didn't make the team.
Speaker 1:I was like you have to understand something that in the past 10 years you made the teams and I coached those teams.
Speaker 1:You didn't make the teams that I coached, and it's a very big distinction, because I got to coach all three of my boys and I wanted to make it very clear that I followed them, not the other way around.
Speaker 1:They went through the trial, they made the teams that they made and then I was helping in those teams and in those capacities to support the organization, and that allowed our director to shuffle the coaches and put people in the right places, but it also allowed me to be able to travel, you know, between three kids, to all the games and all the events that I had to go to, plus the Junior Rangers work that I do, right, so between everything. And so you know my director is extremely wonderful and accommodating to my family and our needs and so, but I just wanted him to know that that you know people are always going to talk and there's always going to be a thousand opinions and a thousand excuses and a lot of blame, and to me that's just noise, and to me that's just noise, and you know most of the people who are very close to you when you tell them your kid plays hockey, they don't know they're playing triple A, double A, a, b, c. Whatever level they're playing, as long as they're playing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's already an accomplishment. Totally and so yeah, and so I you know I want to just reiterate that message to those that are listening that you know, tune out the noise a little bit from uh, you know that kind of happens around you and don't worry so much about making the top team yeah, worry about the.
Speaker 2:Moment yeah, and keeping that dialogue open when you're a kid. I think that's fantastic that you did that of saying this is I don't care, I just want you to be happy, and I think that's fantastic that you did that of saying this is I don't care, I just want you to be happy. And I think that's really the core of it is what parents even parents who are like I want you to be on the best team ever they see that as the child's happiness. Right, that's going to give them that happiness, but ultimately it's any team, as long as you're happy and you're playing in a way that makes you feel good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I know it through my own experience when I play with some ex-professional players and coaches. It's a very high-level hockey. And then I will go and play with my friends who are maybe not as skilled or not as advanced, some folks who just started playing at the age of 50. And we're skating together. We're having a great time together, we have a great experience together.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know me playing at a lower level doesn't mean that, you know, I'm worried about what I'm viewed as by the people standing around the glass. I'm having a good time with my friends and I'm enjoying my experience, and and that's all that really matters at the end, and so that was also the conversation I had with him in terms of like hey, you know, you know you have buddies there and you have buddies there, so the you know, whichever way you go, you're going to have a good time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you're not going to lose in any of these situations.
Speaker 1:Right, well, dr Samantha, thank you again so much for jumping on and spending a little bit over an hour with me today.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll do another one at a later time.
Speaker 1:I think there are a lot of topics that I like to explore, especially in this social world, and you know, I think we barely touched on the social media and the impact of that and some of the other stress world. And you know, I think we barely touched on the social media and the impact of that and some of the other stressors, and you know we have a ton of stories to tell, so I'll look forward to speaking to you again and again. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, coach. It was a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thank you and thank everybody for joining us tonight. The podcast, as as usual, will be available on all the major podcast platforms in the next couple of days. Please make sure to share it and hopefully it helps you along your way of becoming an athlete, an asset to your athlete. Thank you of becoming an athlete and asset to your athlete. Thank you.